Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/13/1996 02:55 PM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
  SENATE BILL NO. 98                                                           
                                                                               
       An Act making  changes related to  the aid to  families                 
       with dependent children program, the Medicaid  program,                 
       the  general relief assistance  program, and  the adult                 
       public assistance program; directing  the Department of                 
       Health  and  Social Services  to  apply to  the federal                 
       government for  waivers to implement the  changes where                 
       necessary; relating to  eligibility for permanent  fund                 
       dividends of  certain  individuals  who  receive  state                 
       assistance,  to notice  requirements applicable  to the                 
       dividend program; and providing for an effective date.                  
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford directed  that  CSSB 98,  Version  "N,"                 
  dated  4/10/96,  be  again   brought  before  committee  for                 
  continued sectional  review.   SENATOR  LYDA GREEN  directed                 
  attention to Page  13 of the  draft and commenced review  of                 
  "Disqualifying Conditions."                                                  
                                                                               
  [Tape malfunction.   There is no recording for  this portion                 
  of the meeting.  Minutes  reflect transcription of shorthand                 
  notes.]                                                                      
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford referenced language at Page 15, line 19,                 
  relating to "a  crime that  is classified as  a felony"  and                 
  asked what would happen if serious class-A misdemeanors were                 
  added.    CURT LOMAS,  Welfare  Reform Program,  Division of                 
  Public  Assistance, Dept.  of  Health and  Social  Services,                 
  explained that the wording was  precisely taken from federal                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  welfare reform language.   He said  he did not know  whether                 
  the state could be more restrictive.                                         
                                                                               
  Senator Green next noted subparagraphs (1), (2), and (3)  at                 
  Page 16, lines 17  through 19, and advised that  they relate                 
  to  fraud.    She  further  pointed to  application  process                 
  requirements set forth on Pages 16 and 17.                                   
                                                                               
  Directing  attention to Page  18, subsection (3)(c), Senator                 
  Green advised  that provisions  relate to  seasonal workers.                 
  Co-chairman Halford referenced the list of utilities  within                 
  subsection (B), suggested  that a telephone does  not appear                 
  to be as basic as other  services listed within the section,                 
  and suggested that it be flagged.                                            
                                                                               
  [Tape malfunction was  corrected at  this point.   Remaining                 
  minutes reflect transcription  of the tape recording  of the                 
  meeting.]                                                                    
                                                                               
  Referencing  Page  19,  Senator  Green  explained  that  the                 
  diversion program is  the same as  HB 78 and the  Governor's                 
  bill.    In  the  proposed  draft,  however,  it  has   been                 
  restricted to adults.  Minors  had previously been included.                 
  The program allows individuals to receive a lump-sum payment                 
  to ensure  that  they will  not  be "going  on  to the  full                 
  benefit program."                                                            
                                                                               
  Language  relating to assistance to  minors at Page 20, line                 
  20, was taken from HB 78.                                                    
                                                                               
  The  family  self-sufficiency  plan set  forth  on  Page 21,                 
  commencing with  line 11,  will be  part of  the intake  and                 
  evaluation  of  those coming  into  the  program.   It  will                 
  involve a plan with benchmarks, time limits, conditions that                 
  must be in place, and how compliance will be achieved.                       
                                                                               
  Page   22  language  relating   to  participation   in  work                 
  activities  was  taken  directly  from  federal  law.    The                 
  emphasis here is on work.                                                    
                                                                               
  Provisions at Page 23 reflect existing law.                                  
                                                                               
  Directing attention  to Page  24 language concerning  agency                 
  collaboration,  Senator Green advised  of instances when the                 
  legislature had need  of more information than  is currently                 
  provided.    She  further  noted  that  temporary  positions                 
  involved in the effort are  exempt.  Interagency efforts are                 
  also to be devoted to job training and development.                          
                                                                               
  Senator  Green next  referenced  Page 25  and  noted that  a                 
  proposed  Amendment  would remove  Federal-State Cooperation                 
  language commencing at line 6.  It is considered to  be "too                 
  loose."  It gives the department too much authority.                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Referencing   the   Alaska   Native  Organizations'   Family                 
  Assistance  Program provisions commencing  at Page  25, line                 
  31, Senator Green advised that the commissioner of the Dept.                 
  of Health  and Social  Services  would speak  to the  issue.                 
  Senator Green  indicated that the provisions  may ultimately                 
  not be needed.                                                               
                                                                               
  The Senator  referenced provisions  for establishment of  an                 
  emergency account per  language at Page 26 and  advised that                 
  inclusion should be a finance  committee decision.  Language                 
  relates to provisions  under the new reform  act whereby the                 
  department  may receive  additional funds  from the  federal                 
  government, and those  funds may not  all be spent within  a                 
  particular fiscal year.   The department will speak to  this                 
  issue.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Page   27  language,   relating  to   Appeals  and   Dispute                 
  Resolution, raises questions  regarding department  adoption                 
  of regulations establishing the  informal dispute resolution                 
  process.    Senator Green  advised  that  she did  not  know                 
  whether a procedure is presently in place for hearings or if                 
  it is necessary to adopt a  new process.  This area requires                 
  clarification.                                                               
                                                                               
  Senator Green  advised of  a proposed  amendment which  will                 
  relate to  Sanctions  and  Recovery  of Costs  at  Page  27.                 
  Provisions deal both with recipients who refuse to cooperate                 
  as well as those who receive  benefits to which they are not                 
  entitled.  Civil action is available via subsection (d).                     
                                                                               
  Definitions  set  forth   at  Page  28  include   terms  not                 
  previously defined.  Senator Green referenced subsection (7)                 
  and noted drafter inclusion of  the word "unemancipated."  A                 
  proposed amendment would remove the word.                                    
                                                                               
  Senator  Green next  advised of  numerous  technical changes                 
  involved in changing  the name of  the Aid to Families  with                 
  Dependent  Children   to  the  Alaska   Family  Independence                 
  Program.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Senator Green referenced Section 13,  Page 30, and explained                 
  that  the  language  was  provided   by  the  Child  Support                 
  Enforcement Division.                                                        
                                                                               
  END:      SFC-96, #78, Side 2                                                
  BEGIN:    SFC-96, #79, Side 1                                                
                                                                               
  The  interest  rate  presently  charged  in  computation  of                 
  arrearages is 12 percent.  The division has asked that it be                 
  reduced to 6 percent.  Senator Randy Phillips noted need for                 
  closer review  of the  request.    Senator  Green read  from                 
  backup  material  indicating that,  for  many years,  the 12                 
  percent rate  was reasonable  given the  prevailing rate  at                 
  that time.   However,  a rate of  6 percent per  year better                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  reflects existing rates.                                                     
                                                                               
  Directing attention to  Page 31,  Section 15, Senator  Green                 
  noted language from HB 78 relating to participation by  both                 
  sets of grandparents  in support  of a child  born to  minor                 
  parents.  The responsibility remains  in effect until one of                 
  the parents reaches the age of 18.  The parents of the minor                 
  mother are  more often involved  in support  of the  infant.                 
  This language would provide some balance to that support.                    
                                                                               
  Section 24,  at Page  33, was  also requested  by CSED.   It                 
  relates to correction of  clerical and administrative errors                 
  by the agency.  Correction  of miscalculations of arrearages                 
  is presently very cumbersome.                                                
                                                                               
  Section 25  language relating  to adverse  action against  a                 
  delinquent obligor's occupational license was  in both HB 78                 
  and  the  Governor's  bill.   It  provides  for  issue of  a                 
  temporary license in  instances of arrearages.  A process is                 
  established by which the obligor may work with the agency to                 
  develop a plan for repayment.  Provisions cover occupational                 
  and driver licenses.   This effort  would require a  network                 
  between CSED and licensing  agencies.  The bill specifies  a                 
  150-day  window in  which the  obligor must  either pay  the                 
  arrearage,  establish   a  payment  plan,   or  request   an                 
  administrative hearing.   Senator  Phillips questioned  CSED                 
  ability to take on this additional  task when the agency has                 
  yet to accomplish its primary purpose.  Senator Rieger asked                 
  if the  provision is  required by  federal reform.   Senator                 
  Green  responded, "This and  more is in  federal law--in the                 
  federal reform act."                                                         
                                                                               
  Section 26  incorporates contractors that  administer grants                 
  within bill provisions.                                                      
                                                                               
  Section 30, Page 46, relates to day-care benefits.  The only                 
  substantive change is removal of the  word "net" (line 6) to                 
  bring language into conformity with federal law.                             
                                                                               
  Senator Green  next directed attention to Page  47, line 23,                 
  and noted addition of the following:                                         
                                                                               
       or a federal program designated as the successor to the                 
       aide to families with dependent children program.                       
                                                                               
  Referencing Page 49,  line 13, Senator  Green noted need  to                 
  add "and legislature" following the word "governor."                         
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford asked  if provisions within Sec.  35, at                 
  Page  47,  reflect  federal law.    Senator  Green responded                 
  affirmatively.  Curt Lomas again  came before committee.  He                 
  explained that  current federal  law contains  a requirement                 
  for   the   language.     All   versions  of   the  personal                 
  responsibility  act,  including  those being  considered  by                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Congress, have a requirement that  the state establish rules                 
  which restrict the use of public assistance case information                 
  to purposes specifically related to program administration.                  
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford asked if availability of the information                 
  to Legislative Budget  and Audit and  individual legislators                 
  would  violate  federal  law.   Mr.  Lomas  said Legislative                 
  Budget and Audit currently conducts program audits.  He said                 
  he was unfamiliar with what level of access the division has                 
  at the present time.                                                         
                                                                               
  Referencing statutory  citations slated for repeal  per Page                 
  48, Co-chairman  Halford  requested  a  list  of  repealers.                 
  Senator Green remarked  that the  existing AFDC program  and                 
  the Jobs program  (AS 47.25) constitute the  majority of the                 
  citations.   She said  she would  subsequently confirm  that                 
  repeals are limited to those programs.                                       
                                                                               
  In concluding her review, Senator Green referenced effective                 
  dates listed on Page 51.   She noted language within Section                 
  54 allowing for  enaction following federal law  changes, if                 
  new federal law is forthcoming.                                              
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford took  exception to portions of  the bill                 
  relating to Alaska  Native Organizations' Family  Assistance                 
  areas, suggesting that, "That's a governmental function that                 
  will create  Indian  country."    Senator  Green  responded,                 
  "There's no opposition  to removing  that section .  . .  ."                 
  Co-chairman Halford added that there are benefits in some of                 
  the  federal provisions.   He said  there was  nothing wrong                 
  with using the  Indian Self-Determination  Act to get  local                 
  entities--the  closest  entities  to  the  people--to   make                 
  decisions.  The question is,                                                 
                                                                               
       If any of the entities . . . on the list . . . are                      
       now recognized as tribes, and we authorize them to                      
       provide a governmental function . . . defined by a                      
       service area,  we're walking  into a  trap on  the                      
       next issue down that road.                                              
                                                                               
  As  long  as  the twelve  entities  listed  at  Page 26  are                 
  incorporated under the  laws of the  state of Alaska and  do                 
  not  have  a tribal  identity,  they are  probably  the best                 
  entities to  do the work.   Co-chairman  Halford voiced  his                 
  understanding  that federal  law  provides  benefits to  the                 
  state at  a higher  rate of  reimbursement for having  these                 
  entities perform the functions.   Senator Green subsequently                 
  advised  that  the  entities  listed  at  Page  26  are  all                 
  incorporated under  the laws of the state.   Language within                 
  the  bill  was  also reworded  to  delete  the  reference to                 
  tribes.    The  Senator  further  noted   provisions  within                 
  subsection  (c)  which  require  the  listed  Alaska  Native                 
  organizations to waive any claim to sovereign immunity.                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  voiced his  understanding  that listed                 
  entities would  be providing  services to  all residents  of                 
  their areas, both Native  and non-Native.  A reading  of the                 
  bill indicates  that service  would  only be  provided to  a                 
  "racially    defined    constituency."       KAREN   PERDUE,                 
  Commissioner, Dept. of Health and Social Services, explained                 
  that under present language, the  organization would write a                 
  plan and apply for the federal  portion of the AFDC program.                 
  Subsection  (b) would allow the state to participate in that                 
  planning.  Funds received from  the federal government would                 
  cover  only  racially  defined  members.    That  would  not                 
  prohibit the state from contracting with the organization to                 
  provide other services.                                                      
                                                                               
  Further  discussion  of  operation of  the  program followed                 
  between  Commissioner Perdue and  Co-chairman Halford.   The                 
  Co-chairman questioned legislative ability to appropriate to                 
  a  racially  defined  function.     He  suggested  that  the                 
  separation  of the  program and  service of  two  classes of                 
  recipients  would  cause  problems.    Commissioner   Perdue                 
  concurred in  concern.   She  said  that when  the  Governor                 
  expressed his views on  the issue, he said it  was important                 
  that  program benefits  be comparable.   That does  not mean                 
  they have  to be  exactly the same.   The  intent is  to get                 
  local  entities  to  design  programs  that  work  in  their                 
  communities.   Co-chairman Halford  reiterated concern  that                 
  the proposed arrangement would create  a situation where the                 
  program at  Bethel would  provide a  different benefit to  a                 
  Bethel Native than  it does  to a Bethel  non-Native.   That                 
  appears to raise equal protection arguments the court system                 
  will not tolerate.   Commissioner Perdue pointed  to ongoing                 
  WIC program  administration by the  Tanana Chiefs Conference                 
  on a non-discriminatory basis.                                               
                                                                               
  Senator  Sharp referenced  language  within subsection  (b),                 
  Page 26, and voiced  his belief that, as written,  it allows                 
  for  a racially defined program.   He suggested that removal                 
  of  "Alaska  Native" within  the  subsection might  cure the                 
  problem.  Commissioner  Perdue voiced  her desire to  create                 
  programs that work locally and do not pit one person against                 
  another.                                                                     
                                                                               
  The commissioner stressed  need for  the department to  work                 
  with  listed  organizations.    She  expressed concern  over                 
  potential for a tribe  to write its own plan, apply  for the                 
  federal share, and receive the funding.  Co-chairman Halford                 
  voiced his understanding  that the state share  provides the                 
  incentive to work  cooperatively with  the department.   The                 
  commissioner concurred.                                                      
                                                                               
  Further  discussion followed  between Co-chairman  Frank and                 
  the commissioner  regarding operations of the  federal block                 
  grant.                                                                       
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  voiced  additional  concern  regarding                 
  broad language and  authorities as well as  the tethering of                 
  occupational licenses to support payments, because of CSED's                 
  past performance.                                                            
                                                                               
  Co-chairman  Halford  announced  his intention  to  continue                 
  review of the bill at 3:00 p.m. the following afternoon.  He                 
  then asked that the  sponsor and department  representatives                 
  speak to the packet of proposed amendments.                                  
                                                                               
  Senator Green directed attention to  the first amendment and                 
  noted   that   it   relates  to   transitional   assistance.                 
  Commissioner Perdue explained that  the department presently                 
  authorizes  12  months  of child  care  after  an individual                 
  leaves AFDC.  Testimony at statewide hearings indicated that                 
  people would leave welfare  much faster if they  had medical                 
  and  child care.    The amendment  would  extend periods  of                 
  transitional assistance to 24 months for day care.  It would                 
  also  extend  Medicaid  medical  care  for children  for  an                 
  additional year.  The cost of the Medicaid extension for the                 
  first partial year  would be $150.0  in general funds to  be                 
  matched by federal dollars.   Co-chairman Halford voiced his                 
  understanding that Medicaid  would cover  the parent for  12                 
  months and the child for 24.  The commissioner concurred and                 
  added that the child care portion  would cost $700.0 for the                 
  first full year.                                                             
                                                                               
  END:      SFC-96, #79, Side 1                                                
  BEGIN:    SFC-96, #79, Side 2                                                
                                                                               
  Further discussion  ensued regarding changes to  the program                 
  intended to discourage individuals from going on welfare for                 
  a  period  of  time  in order  to  obtain  extended  medical                 
  benefits.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Additional discussion followed concerning the voucher system                 
  for child  care and  calculation of  costs per  child.   Mr.                 
  Lomas advised of a typical cost of $450 a month.                             
                                                                               
  In response to a question from Co-chairman Halford regarding                 
  numbers associated with 185 percent of the poverty level for                 
  Alaska, Mr. Lomas advised of $2,501 a month gross income for                 
  a family of three.                                                           
                                                                               
  Senator  Rieger  expressed  a   desire  to  delete  language                 
  relating to 150-day  temporary license provisions.   He said                 
  he  would   be  more  comfortable  with   establishment  via                 
  regulation, if such a provision is mandated  by federal law.                 
  Co-chairman Halford  voiced a  desire to  delete the  entire                 
  license  section.     He   acknowledged  that  the   federal                 
  government might impose the requirement.                                     
                                                                               
  Senator  Randy  Phillips  referenced  language  relating  to                 
  grandparent  liability (Page  31) and  quoted the  following                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  concern raised by a constituent who practices family law:                    
                                                                               
       Teenagers  who do  not  want  to follow  household                      
       rules  can   easily  squeeze  into   one  of   the                      
       exceptions  and  begin  collecting  child  support                      
       based on  all four  of  their respective  parents'                      
       income . . . .                                                          
                                                                               
  SHIRLEY  DEAN,  Juneau  Office,  Child  Support  Enforcement                 
  Division,  Dept.  of Revenue,  came  before committee.   She                 
  advised that if  the teenage  mother voluntarily leaves  her                 
  home, her parents would not be obligated, but the parents of                 
  the infant's teenage  father would  be.  Responsibility  for                 
  non-custodial  parenthood   would  be  transferred   to  the                 
  father's  parents.    Senator Green  noted  that grandparent                 
  responsibilities  were  included within  HB  78 via  a floor                 
  amendment in the House.  Co-chairman Frank asked if paternal                 
  grandparents would have  to provide  support if the  teenage                 
  mother  resides  with  her  parents.    Ms.  Dean  responded                 
  affirmatively and advised that the  reverse would be true if                 
  the  teenage  mother was  living  with the  teenage father's                 
  parents.  The attempt is  to equalize responsibility between                 
  both sets of parents.                                                        
                                                                               
  Lengthy discussion of grandparent  provisions followed using                 
  a number of different scenarios.                                             
                                                                               
  Additional discussion ensued  regarding the two-year  bridge                 
  provision and the five-year limitation  on the program.  Co-                 
  chairman Halford suggested that the  committee might wish to                 
  include sunset provisions for the  two-year bridge.  Senator                 
  Green  cautioned  that  a two-year  sunset  might  not allow                 
  sufficient  time.  Mr.  Lomas reiterated  that  current  law                 
  provides  a 12-month transitional period.  Provisions within                 
  the proposed bill would extend the program for an additional                 
  12 months.   The program is not new  but rather an extension                 
  of  an  existing program.    Co-chairman Halford  voiced his                 
  understanding  that   the  fiscal   note  only   covers  the                 
  extension.  Mr. Lomas concurred.                                             
                                                                               
  Co-chairman Halford  announced a  work session  on the  bill                 
  commencing at noon the following day.   He advised of intent                 
  to have a proposed committee substitute available for review                 
  by 3:00 p.m.   Senator Phillips voiced intent to  prepare an                 
  amendment  to  remove  provisions  relating  to  grandparent                 
  responsibility.    He  also  concurred  in  Senator Rieger's                 
  proposed  change  to  licensing  provisions.     Co-chairman                 
  Halford  expressed a  preference to remove  both provisions.                 
  Senator Green advised of a  proposed amendment providing for                 
  CSED license  review to become effective with implementation                 
  of federal welfare.                                                          
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  The meeting was adjourned at approximately 6:00 p.m.                         
                                                                               

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